http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/11/29/swiss-minarets.html

I used to think of Europe (in general) as a leader in human rights, tolerance, and other such noble things. But over the last few years, hearing the stories (and meeting some people) it's becoming clear to me that Europeans are just as prone to fear and bigotry as the rest of us.

Not sure how much you guys have heard about Muslims in places like Britain, Netherlands, France, etc etc but racism runs strongly in a lot of countries. Crazy...

racism infest every country just about. in the U.S it's institutionalized.
ignorance, fear, and lack of education about other races, religion, and countries is what keeps it going.

Well now..
i) Hating muslims isn't really racism. It just means that one dislikes the religion, what it stands for and people who associate themselves with it. Racism is hating someone because they're born a certain way, not hating someone because they behave a certain way.

ii) In 50 years or so, a majority of the EU population will be muslim. Immigration will do this - no wars or terrorist attacks necessary.

iii) There isn't a single muslim country out there that has a decent human rights record.

iv) If a majority of the EU popluation is going to be muslim, they're likely to push for institution of Sharia law and succeed - they've already succeeded in Britain. This means one set of laws applies to one group of people, and another set of laws applies to everyone else - there may as well not be a country at that point.

v) In order to preserve existing ideals of Western human rights, EU governments will have to act now (in the near future) to safeguard them.

Ofcourse, banning minarets is the dumbest possible way of achieving this - Islamophobia and laws created that single out muslims only shows weakness on the part of Switzerland. If they're concerned that having lots of muslims around will somehow erode their rights, freedoms or way of life, then they should move to enshrine those in the separation of church and state, make sure that the constitution and the judiciary keeps things rock solid by having plenty of precedent.

Sigh. I'm personally getting a little sick of hearing those guys bend to the whims of these extremest religions left, right and center these days. I mean, this does seem small in comparison to some of the stuff that goes on these days (although not by much), but still... If they keep getting everything they ask for the second they throw a temper tantrum, we'll be back in the dark ages before we know it.

true, now I agree with you that there cannot be two sets of laws, if they come to another country, they must follow the law as it is written, and no chance for it to be changed to a groups religious laws. but allow change based on ethnics if a minority group of people are getting the shaft.

the bigger problem that incites these types of issue are fear, ignorance and privilege.

Exactly.

I find it worrisome that extreme right wing groups have this kind of power in parts of Western Europe. Perhaps this is just a symptom of a slightly different form of democracy. I know quite a few people in Canada that thought important issues should be decided by popular vote. I was one of them. Now I'm really rethinking that. Giving this kind of power over to a population that can be so easily manipulated by lobby groups is a rather scary thought. The government itself tried to discourage the people from voting yes to this.

In any case, those who voted for this are eroding the very ideals they feel are in danger. This destroys Swiss credibility, damages the EU's credibility, and harms the credibility of any Western nation that's pushing for better human rights in certain countries. Now anyone can shoot back with: "what happened to religious freedom in Switzerland?"

If it was indeed decided by popular vote, then it's acceptible to me. I don't agree with the decision, but that is what democracy really is.

A popular vote recently overturned a law allowing gay marriage in my state. While I disagree with the decision, I feel popular vote shows a more accurate representation of the people's opinion in a given area than allowing a small number of people to decide for them. Besides that, we've seen over and over that politicians are just as easily swayed by lobbies as general populations are....maybe more so.

This will probably be overturned eventually. I see it as a temporary lapse in judgement...kinda like freedom fries or the Patriot Act.

I don't see the Patriot Act ever going away.

It's actually been law there for many years.
It's not just for muslims.
Any religious building can't build large spires/towers etc. to be seen over other buildings on the skyline.
I think it's actually a good idea.

but yeah, there is a lot of white supremacy there.
Seems to be big over there.
Oh, wait, I guess there's some of that going on over here too...

The patriot act most definately won't go away
they'll just name it something more "comfortable"
like
The Big Brother Sam Act...


LOL